From the welcome chat, see detail below, but here are a couple key points pulled out:
Alex:
So what we hope for is an easy server that i can just npm install valueflows and then npm start and the server will run and have a web interface
and hopefully an easy way to connect via API to services like our accounting service (http://quickfile.co.uk) or even the official government websites and our bank account
and have some kind of market place that gives you an overview over products and services offered by others and also "construction sites" (like what resoures exist under which terms and conditions so that you can start be a little "entrepreneur" (like the guy who printed and sold a 3D model in our past printer example)
Lynn:
so, VF is vocabulary and protocols, not software - although we hope there will be lots of "native" VF apps, see here https://www.valueflo.ws/introduction/usedfor.html
======================
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
09:00
@bhaugen hey 😀 i hope you remember me. It's been at least a few month. I'd like to pick up the conversation from back then about how to integrate valueflo.ws
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
09:02
hi alex, welcome back 😀
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
09:22
👋
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
09:34
hello @fosterlynn 😀 yes
We still have http://refugeeswork.com and we have our software agency http://fairydust.agency
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
09:35
how is it all going?
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
09:35
I'm currently working on a project for a client, but we would like to connect to other companies or self employed individuals that use valueflows
yes - it's kind of fine. My girlfriend and me were living in asia for the last 8 months teaching ppl javascript
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
09:36
wow
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
09:36
we still have an active group in taiwan which we will visit again this winter 😀
they are currently self organizing once a week to go through our program http://wizardamigos.com and the related app http://app.wizardamigos.com
We want to outsource paid tasks to those learners in the future
and also to refugees
For now, most of our team of self employed individuals is listed on http://codingamigos.com
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
09:38
I'm currently working on a project for a client, but we would like to connect to other companies or self employed individuals that use valueflows
are you looking to have all the companies and people implement a valueflows api, or are you looking for people who already have implemented it? (there is not much implemented yet, we're still very early stage)
but we would definitely work with you to do so
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
09:38
We try to update an overview over this ecosystem of related projects on https://github.com/SquatUp/projects
yes both
we would like to connect to people who already have it implemented and then slowly roll it out to others
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
09:43
we're doing an api (just barely started though) for some of FairCoop's software that will be VF - and there are some other implementations starting up, but none done enough yet for you to just hook in to them that I know of... pinging @elf-pavlik to see how far along Vientos is
but I think that for your group, we would need to implement for all of them at once
i'm looking at your links.... you have a lot going on!
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
09:51
and you should be aware that not all of the vocabulary has been agreed to.... but there is nothing like a live project to push that along, and we would commit to work to your needs as best we can (I would be happy to work directly with you)
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
10:08
here is the currently published state, first release: https://www.valueflo.ws/
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
10:59
ok
When i read through http://valueflo.ws i get lost. It all reads nice, but i would love to start more basic.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:00
sure
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:00
Also, we are a network of self employed ppl. All the ppl on codingamigos.com have their own legal entities (e.g. UK limited)
or sometimes "sole proprietors"
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:00
yes
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:00
or how that's called 😛 ... normal freelancers
So they would all like to host their own instance
and then connect to others as necessary
It would be very very cool to have some kind of marketplace to see
...like in the 3D printer example
what products/services are offered
or which "constructions sites" exist
and under which "terms of use" they stand
thats how i imagined the 3D printer example ...buying printer, buying material, making a 3D model, printing & selling it all hooks into the "terms of use" of ppl already part of the "unfinished supply chain"
the accounting software we use is http://quickfile.co.uk (it's free and has an API)
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:03
So they would all like to host their own instance
like serving their own "person" or "small business" instance from their computer, or all together hosting?
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:03
from their computers or rented hosting
but under their control
so it should be trivially simple
we all will never have employees
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:03
right
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:04
oh actually we will all have one employee
ourselves 😛 ...as managing director 😃
@ninabreznik and me will go to UK in fall to fix our employment status
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
11:05
Will the coding amigos work together on projects and share income and expenses etc?
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:05
to finally be able to pay ourselves salary and dividends and are not anylonger in a legal grey area
we are not sure yet - for now we try to avoid common costs and common assets
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:05
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S_OVoaEAYMrLjxVmdlmirXNxmPTy2ONY5slscEw2jtg/edit?usp=sharing
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:05
...as long as we run into a use case that wont work without dealing with it
We have one such use case
http://fairydust.agency
it's co-owned by @ninabreznik and me
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:06
link above is a beginning idea for a "Person App"
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:06
so we want to turn that into a UK Ltd. company
and co-own it as share holders
through our personal UK Ltd. companies
....so all costs and profits would be split according to the shares
but, we did not go into detail yet
Good thing: opening and maintaining a UK Ltd. can be done all online and costs 15 GBP a year
so it's totally viable to open a seperate company for each app or business idea that is co-owned
it's trivial and has no costs attached to report changes in the shareholder structure
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:08
valueflows is totally fine if you are a person or a UK Ltd company or whatever, all are vf:Agents and can do anything an agent can do
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:08
The UK has excellent support for all of this through their online government services (e.g. the companies house and the "her majesties revenue and customs" HMRC web apps)
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:08
nice
Alex, should we move to an issue to continue to explore so this doesn't get lost?
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:09
That sounds great. So what we hope for is an easy server that i can just npm install valueflows and then npm start and the server will run and have a web interface
and hopefully an easy way to connect via API to services like our accounting service (http://quickfile.co.uk) or even the official government websites and our bank account
we are now using http://fire.com
sure
please
😀
just didnt know where to put all this
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:10
no this is cool
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:10
We try to document our project
so how to open the uk limited and what is necessary. which services to use (quickfile.co.uk, fire.com, etc...)
and how to combine all this
we would like to make it a one-click-installer (maybe electron app) to manage hosting your own instance to run your own business
and connect to others
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
11:11
so, VF is vocabulary and protocols, not software - although we hope there will be lots of "native" VF apps, see here https://www.valueflo.ws/introduction/usedfor.html
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:12
and have some kind of market place that gives you an overview over products and services offered by others and also "construction sites" (like what resoures exist under which terms and conditions so that you can start be a little "entrepreneur" (like the guy who printed and sold a 3D model in our past printer example)
that would be nice
Alexander Praetorius
@serapath
11:13
yay 😀 so all this is the long term goal. it's easy to home brew our custom solution but it always faces the risk of "code rott" and it wont be build on top of a standard that many others can use too
which is important to be able to connect.
I'm personally always a bit reluctant to use rfd or something that is no JSON, but yeah - maybe... if i can use javascript implementations that manage that stuff in the background i might not be bothered with it so much
and it probably creates some value